I feel that this is a very exhaustive article regarding Mr. Dylan but in my opinion I feel that it should be condensed. Also, some of the paragraphs are EXTREMELY long and could possibly be broken up into subparagraphs.
Doing so would make the article more aesthetic and easier to read. 09:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree, a Dylan scholar needs to come in and make breaks at once. Peak
This article has just been through exhaustive review whether it’s still worthy of Featured Article status. Consensus verdict was ‘keep’ (by a slim majority). Review looked at structure, quality of prose etc.
One comment by administrator was that some one sentence paragraphs should be eliminated, not that paragraphs were too long. See Comment of FA Review below. See box:This article was reviewed above.
10:50, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
One of the mainstays is which states, The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability. Briefly, if a statement appears in an article which an editor is fairly sure has never been published, then said editor may remove the unpublished statement. An alternative is to place {{Cite}} (Citation needed) immediately after the questionable statement.
Another alternative is to copy and paste the statement to the discussion page for discussion and citing. This is insurance of good, reliable information. This is also insurance against individuals coming to Wikipedia to toot their own horn.
In this Dylan article, for example, would prevent a close friend of Dylan's from editing the article and inserting unpublished, unknown information about him. It also acts as a brake to personal by an editor who would exaggerate good information. 01:02, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
The opening section compares Dylan to Stephen Foster, Irving Berlin, Woody Guthrie, and Hank Williams.
I'm not a musicologist but (weasel term) it seems to me (/weasel term) that have been a few important musicians that were not white. Shouldn't we add someone like Muddy Waters or Miles Davis to the comparison to broaden the scope and avoid ethnocentrism? -Tom
When Dylan published his "Writings and Drawings" volume in 1972, he dedicated it to two people: Woody Guthrie and Robert Johnson. 10:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Although Waters, Davis, and Johnson are certainly influential, their work is known primarily among enthusiasts and fellow musicians, while just about every child in America knows at least one song by Foster, Berlin, and Guthrie. Besides, the point of the statement is not to promote the artists mentioned, but to make a point about Dylan's music. Plugging more names into it "to broaden the scope and avoid ethnocentrism" is definitely ill-advised.
05:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Bojangles is one of them. Someone should write an article for this an many of his other songs. —The preceding comment was added by ( • ) 16:55, 21 July 2006.
Bojangles", nor "Stuck In The Middle With You", nor "Eve of Destruction", nor "Mellow Yellow". 12:22, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
00:40, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
15:42, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I added this to what he is. Someone took it off. Why?
21:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Equally, he is not best known for his disc jockeying, so it doesn't really belong in the introduction. 13:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
The opening sentence (I'm just pondering here) should really sum up why this person is being included in Wikipedia, ie what is notable about him, and everything else should get shunted to the body of the article. Of course, I'm saying this without having consulted the official WP policies on intro text, but I imagine that this is a reasonable rule-of-thumb. After all, if Bob had retired and was now working as a bank teller, we wouldn't describe him as "an American singer-songwriter, author, musician, poet and bank teller".
05:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
The actual museum or whatever is probably quite good, but this link doesn't belong.
(as far as i can tell at least.) I find it difficult to see the significance.
But I don't know why it is called this? I don't see that name anywhere on the site. Great site, just needs retitling.
) is trying to cut down.
Doesn't seem to contain any more information on the 78 tour than the other concert directory (his bobness info).
Only the very complete collector).
Doesn't even include bootleg 7.
It is on the same site, and has the same information? people will be able to find it for themselves.
no information whatsoever.
Not really needed here.
) Several others are just too minor to be important (PBS masters site, which basically advertises no direction home; the copyright free review of no direction home; the collection of bob dylan quotes (that's what wikiquote is for!); covers of bob dylan songs by others (its on the bjourner site, which is the same site as the first two olof's files links. redundant link.
) ). Other links are interesting (his youth in hibbing one, kind of gives another perspective.) and should stay.
Do you want to do the honors? 03:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
WP:BIO requires that sources for derogatory comments about living people be well-sourced and cited, saying that BD stole records from his friends and didnt live up on his record contract are derogatory. Way too many value judgements and statements of opinion. Way too many examples of "facts" that are argued about, and prolly dozens of errors.
All of this has been discussed on the talk page before. 19:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
20:10, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd completely revert all of these references, particularly since they are hindering more progress in the article, but I don't want to establish an all-out edit war.
This, in fact, is why the 1973 album "Dylan" was released of mostly outtakes - to fulfill his contract by releasing a final album.
In the process I discovered that a lot of the citations provided were irrelevant to whatever statement they were supposedly citing, so not all of them are useful. I would review them more thoroughly, but I think I'd rather work on appling needed citations, so if somebody else is up to the task we would all appreciate it. 21:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I made a statement on some page where this Harmonica Wolfowitz guy hangs out and now we have another banshee, with no respect for all the voters who elevated this article to FA, on the loose. H. Wolf-- this article is not a mess.
All it needs is its old-style refs brought into line with the new tagging style. Please don't tear through the article making off-the-cuff changes: see (which, while generally encouraging boldness, also says "..
.making large-scale changes to Featured articles, which are recognized as Wikipedia's best articles for their completeness, accuracy, and neutrality, is often a bad idea.").
You, H. Wolf, may not agree with its FA status, but show some respect for the dozens of Wikipedians who gave it that status and who have gone on to include it in fixed releases. Thx.
02:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Editors being bold on this article is probably the best way it can improve (possibly maintaining its FA status in the process), and users doing so should be applauded, not chastised. 14:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Such images can often be used more readily outside the U.S. If you see a fair use image and know of an alternative more free equivalent, please replace it, so the Wikipedia can become as free as possible.
" 23:05, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
So, I've removed it again. 18:41, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Per #1, any unfree image is subject to deletion. 18:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
The copyright holder can email permissions AT wikimedia.org to verify their licensing if they don't want to get an account. Templates for request letters can be found at .
03:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Picture needs to be changed. There are several "early" Dylan photos, but none of the 65-66 era. Best to represent his most famous period.
—The preceding comment was added by ( • ).
We have an Administrator abusing his powers here, but I'm in no condition to bring action against him. My only alternative is to steer clear of this article.
Good luck folks. 04:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
11:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Well then the light should be tuned on inside and the garage door closed. It's like changing one's clothes in public. Hundreds of people are reading this while this is going on.
.. Also, it seems that whenever the new sourcing occasions a rewrite of a sentence or paragraph, the writing is quite shaky.
. But all-in-all I do wish you success. I must admit it was overdue.
18:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Can I ask why "citations are needed" for statements that have been pretty much done to death in every single book ever written on the subject? Do we REALLY need a "citation," for instance, for the young Dylan adopting a Huck Finn persona, and telling tall tales about what he'd done? Doesn't everybody KNOW that?
Can we at least assume that regular editors of an article have read one book on the subject? The article looks like crap with "citation needed" plopped at the end of every sentence. 23:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
SECProto and Roballyn are outright vandalizing under the approving gaze of JKelly and Ex. Mach..
Painful to watch. 23:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
No, IMO we shouldn't assume any facts are a given, and if something is in 3 books anyway, it's not hard to cite. I never knew Dylan assumed a Huck Finn persona, and that is exactly the sort of thing I would want to see cited, because Wiki has been such a source for fueling rumors and speculation. (Wiki conferred upon one controversial political figure a Master's Degree he never had, and no one noticed for several years.
Since seeing that, I say everything should be cited.) Wiki readers shouldn't be asked to "take our word for it", even less so when considering that anyone can edit here. Wiki has to have a higher standard on referencing that other information sources, because anyone can edit.
Also, I've found that as soon as an article is scrupulously referenced, vandalism and nonsense edits decline, as new editors see the level of referencing required. Personal life, details about divorce? Absolutely need to be cited, because it's personal details that are too easy to get wrong and can be too damaging.
I like to see everything cited except "the sky is blue". That's what I'll be looking for on the FAR. Hope this helps, 03:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I’m puzzled by the great mess this article has become.
By adding roughly 80 x [citation needed] the article looks like a joke. I’m puzzled for 2 reasons.
I looked at Miles Davis, another Featured Article about a major figure in 20th century culture.
It’s a good article but it has dozens of sentences that could be regarded as opinion and yet there is not one [citation needed]. For example:
“The quintet’s approach to improvisation came to be known as “time no changes” or “freebop”, because while they retained a steady pulse, they abandoned the chord-change-based approach of bebop for a modal approach.”
I think that’s good, but why does it not need a citation and yet we have [citation needed] next to: “Dylan’s 1978 album Street Legal” was lyrically one of his more complex and absorbing.
” ?
The second reason I’m puzzled is that 90% of the [citation needed] can be answered by reference to one of the major Dylan biographies: Sounes, 2001, and Heylin, 2003.
1.
“Street Legal… suffered from a poor sound mix (attributed to his studio recording practices).” [citation needed] Heylin, 2003, pp 480-1 details the defective recording technique of this album.
2.
“That summer Dylan stoked the drama of his legacy by performing with…Mike Bloomfield, guitar, Sam Lay, drums, Jerome Arnold, bass, plus Al Kooper, organ, and Barry Goldberg, piano. [citation needed]” Heylin, 2003, pp 208-216 tells the oft repeated story of Dylan’s 1965 Newport set.
3.
“The relaxed atmosphere (of Big Pink) yielded renditions of many of Dylan’s favored old songs and some newly-written piece. [citation needed]” Sounes, 2001, pp 222-5 tells the very familiar tale of the Basement Tapes.
4.
“In August 1965, at Forest Hills Tennis Stadium, the group was heckled by an audience who… still demanded the acoustic troubadour of previous years; their reception on September 3rd at the Hollywood Bowl was more uniformly favorable. [citation needed]” Sounes, 2001, pp 189-90 details the Forest Hills and Hollywood Bowl concerts.
If we’re talking about critical evaluation of Dylan’s songs, then Ricks, 2003, and Gray, 2006, contain many insight into lyrics that correspond to this article.
For example:
5. “A Hard Rain’s a-Gonna Fall marked an important new direction in modern songwriting, blending a stream-of-consciousness, imagist lyrical attack with time-honoured folk traditions to create a sound a sense that struck listeners as somehow new and ancient simultaneously. [citation needed]”
Ricks, 2003, pp 329-44 contains this insight and many more.
6. “The Brechtian influenced The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll, a highlight of the album, describes a young socialite’s killing of a hotel maid. Never explicitly mentioning race, the song leaves no doubt that the killer is white, the victim black.
[citation needed]”
Ricks, 2003, pp 221-233 makes this point and many others.
Would 80 references to the works of Heylin and Sounes and Ricks enhance the authority of this article? I’m not sure.
I’ve added 10 web-based references to this article in the last week but indexing Sounes and Heylin and Ricks may be a step too far. When this article was externally reviewed by The Guardian on 24 October 2005, Derek Barker, editor of leading Dylan magazine Isis rated it 8/10. That shows it’s factually solid.
btw, I’m not brilliant at footnote software but if anyone wants to turn the above points into footnotes for the article, they’re welcome.
I must acknowledge the points Sandy makes above answers some of my puzzlement. (I was writing this while he posted)
06:24, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
hmmmm.
.. interesting.
...
within 5 minutes of my posting this, someone (Plange) had turned them into references...
I'll do more when I get the time...
or Plange do you want to contact me I'll give you more references? 06:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
06:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep up the good work, you might save this from being an ! 18:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand his point. thanks again! 20:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I should have noted that :-) 20:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, if one book can be used to reference a number of statements, easy: do it.
Using named refs makes it very easy to repeat references. End of problem. Don't assume the Wiki reader has read the book: tell them exactly where to find the info.
Why do you need a referece for “Dylan’s 1978 album Street Legal” was lyrically one of his more complex and absorbing.” ? Because that is obviously a POV statement.
We need to know if a reliable source said those words; that is, we need a reference, or else the statement is original research and POV. 12:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
This is also being discussed at . 20:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I fixed the lead.
It now gives the reader an objective sign of Dylan's "stature" as somebody wanted, but it does it with statemetns of fact not unsourced opinions. I didn't put inline cites in because in other articles no citation of individual awards is needed when the award statement is directly linked to a well-referenced WP page about the award. If that's not OK I'll fix it again.
20:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
23:00, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
com (Official website with lyrics), Expecting Rain (Dylan related news stories events updated daily), and Bob Links (Comprehensive log of concerts set lists) These 2 sites contain myriad links portals to other sites. I would be happy to delete the others. 21:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
21:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Could this be Dylan's deep, dark secret of his past and troubled teenage years? My research concerning his life story indicates that this may be something of a revelation. My question would be: Why was this brief period of Dylan's young life not revealed in any previous publication?
Perhaps the author (Larry Haugen) could shed some light on this (apparently unauthorized) version of a young Bob Dylan. It would seem to me, that without the inclusion of that portion of his life, any biographical (or autobiographical) account of his life is incomplete.
14:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)Mac Redenbacher
Clinton Heylin (Bob Dylan, Behind the Shades Revisited, 2003) writes that Dylan may have spent time at a "country club reform school" in Pennsylvania called Devereaux in the summer of 1959.
Heylin thinks this episode may have inspired Dylan's song 'The Walls of Redwing' which was recorded for Freewheelin' and released on Dylan's Bootleg Series Vol. 1 -3 (1991). In his liner notes for the Bootleg album, John Bauldie says it's definite Dylan never spent time in Redwing, though Heylin claims Dylan told Al Aronowitz he'd served time in Redwing.
(Heylin, p 27-28) The lyrics of 'The Walls of Redwing' can be found on Dylan's website www.bobdylan.com 17:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
22:59, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
People have commented on it before Christopher Ricks’s book and after Christopher Ricks’s book. I think it’s valid to suggest that the song works in this way and then give a concrete citation to Ricks because his discussion of the racial angle of Hattie Carroll is particularly good. But to attribute the idea to Ricks alone – as you do in your version – distorts this point.
I could also give citations for 5 critics who have called Hattie Carroll a highlight of Dylan’s song-writing career, so I think it is valid to call it a highlight of the album. I've addded some further thoughts on the note I've posted on your User page. Best wishes 09:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
..".
The song's lyrics are still being interpreted by these people, and it's more opinion than fact that they are about race (the article says it doesn't mention race); therefore, we can't simply state that "the song leaves no doubt that the killer is white, the victim black".
The same things applies with calling Dylan "hard-working". I left the "elder statesman" statement in because I didn't really know what that meant (or that it implied a POV), but I suppose would make just as much sense to change the header to something like "Later career". 14:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAA!
!!!
!THAT IS HILARIOUS!Dylan in Reform school?
Fuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
!!!
!!!
!!!
!111 —The preceding comment was added by ( ) 10:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC).
Since Dylan's discography (which is central to understanding his work) has been removed to a separate Wikipedia entry, would that not also be appropriate for Theme Time Radio Hour? Dylan may go on doing his radio show for years, so the list may become very long. It's making a long article even longer that info is easily available on Expecting Rain web-site many others.
09:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
g. 17:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
It's beyond embarrassing to have this article define Dylan's accomplishments in terms of prizes and magazine covers. The lead paragraph is (rightly) taken as the basic formulation on the article topic. I shudder when I think of mirrors and other sites slurping up this intro.
22:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
However, I can only give citation/references for paragraphs I believe are true, or critical opinions I think deserve to be substantiated. In the 1980s section there was a long rambling discussion of Dylan’s religious values in this decade. Administrators have added [ ] next to practically every sentence.
I can’t supply these references because I basically don’t agree with this paragraph. It treats Dylan’s religious values as though religious commitment arrived in Dylan’s work with Slow Train Coming, and may have departed some time in the 1980s. I think this is a misunderstanding of Dylan.
I think his work is drenched in religious imagery and the language of the King James Bible from his earliest recordings to his most recent. Certainly Blowin’ In the Wind and When the Ship Comes In are written in the language of Biblical parables. Anyway, this is a long-winded way of saying that I’ve deleted this paragraph, but if an editor wishes to re-instate it and provide the citation/references necessary to substantiate it, they are very welcome.
10:11, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
On the album chronology leads to 'Dylan Dead', but THAT page leads to the rest of Gratefull Dead's discography, and NOT Dylan's..
Hi guys.
The keep consensus was slim, but there was a definite sense of improvement based on Mick's work and given the extensive citations here there was not a basis for remove. Two things:
15:55, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
07:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
E.g. "Having been active in the creation of music for very long, Dylan has managed to create 32 albums as of September 2006, ( ) being the most recent.
For a full discography, please see ". — 18:27, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
It is not very difficult for anyone seeking Bob Dylan's Discography to click on the link. 07:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I was planning on contributing a lot to Wikipedia, and I do accept constructive criticism, but not plain deletion without warning or discussion.
Are you Lespaul? The only thing I deleted was an edit by Lespaul calling Dylan an American Jewish artist in the first sentence of the lead para. I commented “I’d argue American, rather than American Jewish, in first para.
” I read the linked article. Larry Yudelson tries to claim Dylan as a Jewish artist. He’s entitled to his opinion but I don’t think his article is totally convincing.
He writes: “Sixty-one biblical references have been counted on the next Dylan album, John Wesley Harding. "All Along the Watchtower" transformed Isaiah's images into a rock hit. But what was a nice Jewish boy singing that "I Dreamed I Saw St.
Augustine"?”
This article properly states that Dylan was born to Jewish parents who were part of a close-knit Jewish community in Duluth Hibbing. Dylan uses Old Testament references. He uses New Testament references.
He also references Egyptian Greek mythology, Shakespeare romantic poetry in his songs. Above all, he’s steeped in the language the history of the blues country music gospel music. I think it’s false to characterise Dylan as a Jewish artist or a Christian artist.
That limits him. That’s my opinion. 14:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I might have posted previous message annonymously, but that was merely a coincidential mistake. I think your argumentations are fair enough and I accept them as trustful and authentic.
Since Dylan toured with and recorded an album with the Grateful Dead, I think they should be listed in the "Associated Acts" section in the box on the top-right of the page (I don't know what else to call it.
I'm a new user!). I can't seem to be able to edit that section, so I'm hoping that whomever can will do so.
Is this even the right place to be suggesting/discussing this? Thanks! 05:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
15:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC) Thanks Mick.
Trying the tildes. As a personal observation, Jack was a huge influence on Bob in the early days stylistically. They hung out together and Bob absorbed Woody through Jack's interpretations.
Woody was in hospital at this time. And Jack had a more mellow, almost surreal style of laconic rambling banter than Woody..
. Jack was a friend of the beats -- Kerouac, Ginsberg etc. Kerouac read the entire manuscript of "On The Road" to Jack over a wine-soaked three day period five years before it was published.
The influence of Jack's humour is also heard in Arlo Guthrie's 'Alice's Restaurant'. But the BIG difference, and the parting of ways occurred after Bob started writing. Jack is an interpreter historian troubadour, Bob is the poet king of folk, rock and any other music that has words in the last half of the twentieth century.
(Jack comes up with amazing stuff quite regularly in the course of a day, but never writes it down.) The humour of the earliest Dylan recordings is influenced by a mixture of Woody and Jack, with the surreal flavourings coming more from Jack. And while this is a page about Bob, I just realised a largely unsung aspect of Jack's life and work: the influence of his sense of humour, which is profound -- it touched Dylan, Arlo, Johnny Cash and many others and I don't think I've seen it defined as such until this very minute.
Jack started as a kind of Will Rogers that eventually matured into a sort of a George Burns who occasionally slips a song into his observations of the universe.
13:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC) I've been unable to find any *documented* primary source of the two "Son of Jack Elliott" stories either, after some effort. I still think they're true, but my belief is of no value to Wikipedia.
I'm glad you got me off my butt to do some work rather than simply hand on folklore. Wish I could have brought home the bacon, but so far, no. Thanks for that, I learned something.
.. that seeing mention of something repeatedly doesn't mean it has an actual documented primary source.
btw I agree with your interpretation of the story of Dylan rolling across the floor helpless with mirth, on learning Ramblin’ Jack Elliott was really Elliott Adnopoz. Obviously one self-invented Jewish hobo was amused to discover another. Best wishes 17:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
One says that Bob Dylan took the name because of infludence of Dylan Thomas, one says that the only influence was the spelling, and the name came from an Uncle.
And he told a different story about his name in Chronicles. 17:39, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
He rerecorded some tracks (can't remember on which album) that his "big" brother wasn't happy with and the last I heard, (read) he and his family built a house on the same land in Minnesota, where his Bobness has his farm. 15:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
This unusual mannerism is unprecedented in the world of popular music. 'Upsinging' remains a part of Dylan's live show to this day. Dylanologist Doug Evans coined the term 'upsinging' after Dylan's 2002 concert at Newport, RI, which was laden with 'upsinging.
'
But I could be wrong. This could be an important insight by another (anonymous) Wiki editor. What do other people think?
06:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Mick, upsinging is a widely known and discussed vocal mannerism of Mr. Dylan's. It dominates his current live performances, taking up as much as a third of his overall vocal performance.
Many fans find it quite bothersome and/or upsetting.
Also, Dylan's vocal range didn't significantly diminish until 2003.
(This dialogue might be easier if you registered a Username.) I’ve been going to Dylan’s concerts for the last 30 years, I know what upsinging is. I asked Andrew Muir (author of “Razor’s Edge” – well regarded study of Never Ending Tour) his opinion on this passage.
He replied:
The thing with upsinging is all Dylan fans know what it means – that irritating fake emotion sham of raising his voice at the end of the line. I doubt it is a professional musical term but it is shorthand for referring to the abomination!
Or is it an observation he made to his friends? If the latter, it would be more difficult to attribute to Mr Evans alone. best wishes 14:26, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
This article, on the contrary, praises with faint damns. Dammit!
21:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Have we any news about it?
(sorry for my English) :) -- · · 18:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
This article uses as a reference. A concern has been raised about the reliability of salon.com.
You can read the following discussion and comment if you like. See . 04:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi, it's my first time editing any wikipedia article.
I just added a paragraph near the end of the 'Protest and the Other Side' section. Thanks for your forebearance 08:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Considering that Dylan's perceived split/feud with the folk music scene is a significant event in the history of music, something that Martin Scorcese's documentary reinforced and transmitted to a new generation raised on cultural pablum, I thought the article needed a bit more background on what all the fuss was about. This is my first time editing any wikipedia article so thanks for your forebearance.
The addition consists of the last paragraph in the Protest and Another Side section (the former last sentence of the section is intact except for an added 'But as' at the beginning). Thank you. 08:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
The point you make is an interesting one. Hope you don't mind if I edit it a bit. It is a bit dogmatic in tone: "The folk revival had predicated itself on the belief that life equalled art.
.." That's one component, emphasised by Georgina Boyes and Greil Marcus.
I'm sure there were other factors at work, eg enthusiasm for a good tune. I think Dylan's "historical-traditional music" line is from Marcus rather than Alan Jacobs essay. But your Dylan quote about "roses growing out of people's brains" from Hentoff is great.
best wishes 15:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
i am not sure whether it accepts me.'") to be quite a tangential thought that doesn't really follow (it used to follow from the quote in the previous paragraph, "..
.But what of Bobby Dylan?.
.. Only a non-critical audience, nourished on the watery pap of pop music could have fallen for such tenth-rate drivel.
" As Dylan wrote in the sleeve notes for Bringing It All Back Home, 'i accept chaos. i am not sure whether it accepts me.'" I think it's a bit too slapdash a way of wrapping up the paragraph.
..
I've tried it after MacColl as a response. 07:18, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
History, Compare Selected Versions seems to erroneously show content ("His couisin is very famous polish scientist and lawyer John Zimmermann") that I removed.
Technical problem? 23:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This has probably been discussed before, but I just can't bring myself to look theough 3 archived pages. The page on " " mentions him as using amphetamines, but I don't remember seeing that in this article.
If this is true and sourced, it should probably go in this article, and if not true (or un-sourceable) I'll remove it from the Watchtower article. 17:44, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Dylan has always been one of the most prolific songwriters, his collection of bootlegs is extensive, yet Wikipedia steers for the most part clear of any ascociation with them. The only references to Dylan bootlegs are those that speak of the Bootleg Series. I think some kind of listing of available/notable bootlegs should be put up somewhere, probably as its own article.
This does not necesarily mean live bootlegs, it could also mean studio outtakes, unused sessions (like the session from May 1, 1970), or other demo tapes (like the Minnesota Hotel Tape from December 22, 1961). Just an idea. Please consider/discuss it.
-Notahippie76
I'm Happy to start working on one but I don't want to upset the people who don't like illigal and difficult to reference albums. —The preceding comment was added by ( ) 23:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
Forty years later, his 2001 album "Love and Theft", reached the top five on the charts in the U.S. and the UK.
His latest studio album, Modern Times, released on August 29, 2006, became his first US #1 album in thirty years, making him the oldest living person to top the charts at the age of 65."
I assume that this paragrpah was initially written before Modern Times, and then info about that album tagged on the end following it's release? If so, do we need Love Theft in there at all?
It seems the point being made is of Dylan's longevity, so we only need to reference his latest album. —The preceding comment was added by ( • ) 17:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC).
I was thinking the same thing, thanks 23:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I've restored links to 2 websites.
Expecting Rain is updated daily constitutes the best resource for monitoring both Dylan's own activity, and critical commentary on it. It provides links to every major Dylan event in the press, in book publishing, on radio, and TV. This updating is done by a vast linked array of Dylan fans scholars.
Bob Links provides Dylan set lists tour itineraries, as well as links to other specialist Dylan websites dealing with Dylan in movies, Dylan interviews, chord transcriptions of Dylan songs, the major archived Dylan features in the serious press. There are over 100 websites dealing with Dylan's lyrics, Dylan's paintings, Dylan's religious beliefs, etc. I believe these 2 sites are the best index archive of all that Dylan scholarship, some of which is very good.
Both these web sites are regarded by serious Dylan scholars as indispensable in terms of Dylan research. In my opinion, and that of every major Dylan scholar I know, they are neither spam nor commercial websites primarily geared to marketing. 08:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I have merged in material from the article so that it can be deleted as per the AFD.
I haven't finished doing up the footnotes properly; I'll get to it soon, if no one else wants the thankless task. -- 20:06, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
" The source for Joan Baez is a newspaper article reproduced in the Bob Dylan Scrapbook, which I no longer have possession of and therefore can't pinpoint exactly.
The main article has been contentious enough without dragging in the editing dispute over how much of this article should be preserved. Keep this one or delete it, but since only one vote of 15 in the Afd thought merger was appropriate, it clearly wasn't the consensus result.
18:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
In my humble opinion, I find this article to be very interesting and informative. I don't think it should be deleted. And so long as it is not merged with the main Dylan article, I don't see how it could cause much controversy.
16:41, 3 May 2006 (PST)
I have reinserted the link to the article titled "Come In," She Said, "Ill Give You Shelter From The Storm" which had been wrongly removed at various times in the past. The reasons give for its removal were unfounded under the true Wiki principles, and I will address some of them as follows:
1. Some have said that it is self-serving.
It actually falls under the catagory of "obscure" which is acceptable under Wiki policy.
2. Some have said that it is self promoting spam.
The site it links to is not at all commercial, nor even solicates donations, as does Wiki, itself.
3. Some have said that it is original research.
Yet the facts therein are not only facts of the very basics of the Hebrew language, but the premise of the femininity of the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost has been long established in the Jewish Kabbalah and other Jewish writings.
Please be considerate of the true principles of a free exchange of ideas by not removing the link without a prior discussion. If it is maliciously removed, this matter will go to arbitration.
03:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree with that website "Shelter From the Storm" is both very obscure speculative. We should only link most important Dylan websites, and that is not one of them. 09:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
There is a book under the Further Reading section titled "Tangled Up in the Bible: Bob Dylan and Scripture," another one called "Hard Rain: A Dylan Commentary," and another called "Bob Dylan and Philosophy." So what gives them weight to be in the article, and not the Shelter link? This is very important point, and deserves to be properly addressed.
The Shelter link is inconsequential as far as the length of the article is concerned, and I see that argument as a sham (with all due respect). Brian..
.'s thought on the relevance of Dylan's work on Gospel music, is a mere opinion, and not based on any thing of weight. I have played his "Christian" songs before some very conservative Christians who would never have thought that Bob Dylan could have written such things, and not only did they like the songs, but loved the thoughts and music in the songs.
They were not marginal in their responses, but whole heartedly appreciative of being exposed to the songs. And they were all Gospel singers themselves (about 80 of them, representing over 10 different denominations). Mick's statement that the premise of Shelter being speculative is, in itself, speculative.
What evidence does he have that what is said in Shelter is untrue? Who was Bob Dylan talking about in Shelter, when he said "If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born"? Who is the subject of the song Precious Angel, and the others noted in the Shelter link.
If you can't give a reasonable answer, and can't disprove what is written in the Shelter link about Hebrew thinking playing very heavily in Bob Dylan's experience and songs, then it is only fair to leave it alone, and let those who may want to investigate the matter themselves do so without obstruction from those who may not be interested in looking deeply into such things, or are already satisfied with what they think. Be fair. Wiki means "anyone," even those whom others may want to bully.
I am actually amazed that nobody has removed the "Gospel" genre references I inserted at the beginning of the article. There has been such an ongoing debate in the editing of this article about Dylan religious (Christian) testimony that it took a long time for some to allow the matter to be even marginally represented. Tell me, why do either of you think that of all the editing has been done in the past has no one been honest enough to simply include Gospel as one of the genre he has performed in?
Is it bigotry. Some would certainly see it as that way. I am going to reinsert the link now.
If anyone feels that it should be removed, let them do it the right way by first discussing the matter. I am reasonable, and I also know by experience that some others are not. I you think you can present a reasonable excuse for suppressing the thoughts in the Shelter link, and that said argument will stand the scrutiny of candid minds, then present the thoughts before removing the link, as such is how that should be done.
04:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
It quotes him at the beginning, it quotes him at the end and suggests an alternative reading of one verse of his. But the main purpose of the article is to establish the feminine nature of the Holy Spirit. I would suggest that you try to add the link to a theological article instead.
As to the gospel music part: I am not opposed to that, if other editors than yourself want to add such links; I am not particularly a Bob Dylan expert, although I like much of his stuff. -- 06:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
"BOB DYLAN" = "B. on B.
Lady"
The "Blonde on Blonde Lady" is , who Bob Dylan wrote the song for, recorded on his most acclaimed (double) album, . Stranger still is the further fact that the title of this song is itself intended as a coded name-anagram of Sara Lownds' name:-
(Though the "R" in "Sara" is missing, "LOWLANDS" is clearly a play on words of Sara Lownds' last name, as it was before she married Bob Dylan and became Sara Dylan.)
As stated in the , Bob Dylan has never performed this song live.
Sara was his inspiration, the love of his life, and his Muse, as is evident from the songs that Dylan wrote for her and with her and which made literary references to her. It is therefore poignant that the woman in the background who means so much to Dylan, and through the music inspired by her, to the world, is inscribed and enshrined in his name.
You will have to do better than that. Please provide intelligent comments, if you will, but conversely, please refrain from making meaningless derogatory snipes such as these.
(BTW .
..I believe, but do please correct me if I am in error, that you are the person who is trying unsuccessfully to obtain recognition for your derogatory anagram of an obscure British Liberal Party member of parliament against whom you have some personal disagreement.
Do you have a gripe against me also?)-- 01:09, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
"Lowlands" has nothing to do with the name Lownds, just take a look at the geographical locations of New York and Delaware. Look at the picture of his passport in the book that comes with the Bootleg Series Vol 1 - 3.
His height is incorrect, his date of birth is incorrect. Is it a genuine passport? No, it's one of the many jokes Dylan likes to play, including acting out his song titles in photographs.
"Low - lands". Worked it out yet? BTW, this is a very good article.
I happen to own a copy of this cd but i can't find information about it anywhere. does anyone know anything about it? I can upload a scan of the CD cover if it helps.
10:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
The article now goes straight from Saved to Under the Red Sky. Where did the 1980s go? 22:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
01:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC) As you know "Factory Girl" will be released Feb.2 in the U.S.
It features a character called "Billy Quinn" who is supposed to portray Bob Dylan.The movie previews makes it look like Bob and Edie Sedgwick(Andy Warhol's Factory Girl)had a relationship.Does anyone know if this is true?
(I know it's none of my business bur I want to know anyway.)
Is there actual proof that Dylan is indeed a vegetarian? I've read in some places that he is and I've also read that he just likes to get vegetables a lot but he really isn't a vegetarian.
The reason I'm asking is because at the bottom of the page it lists him as a vegetarian. —The preceding comment was added by ( ) 22:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC).
A Wikipedia editor has added the information that Dylan first learnt his folk style of guitar playing from Marvin Karlins at University of Minnesota.
I can find no reference to Marvin Karlins in any of the major Dylan biographies or reference books. I thought it worth adding that Dylan has always credited with turning him onto folk music, after youthful interest in rock'n'roll, and have left in a short reference to Karlins. 08:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
preacher thinks its funny to mangle the song.
—The preceding comment was added by ( ) 04:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
I think it's valid to include Gospel in Dylan's genres, since he made 2 Gospel album, Slow Train Coming Saved, as well as many other songs that could be included in the Gospel tradition, eg Every Grain of Sand, Groom's Still Waiting at the Altar. Album of cover versions of Dylan's Gospel compositions by distinguished Gospel singers has been released: Gotta Serve Somebody.
The second album, (1980), was not so well-received. When touring from the fall of 1979 through the spring of 1980 Dylan refused to play secular music.
It's his name. He changed his name to Bob Dylan on 2 August 1962 in New York Supreme Court. It's the name on his passport, on all his albums, all legal documents, and on all his song copyrights.
Wording is consistent with entries on and , artists who also changed their names legally. 23:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
00:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)Mick Gold?Like Mick Jagger?
SWEET! I totally agree with you.Its his legal name,not just a stage name.
00:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Am I the only one who feels that this picture of Bob Dylan is not the best...
i.e. it does not really look like Bob Dylan.
If I was reading this article for the first time, I would have no real idea of what he looks like. I feel a better, clearer picture is in order
23:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
07:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
—The preceding comment was added by ( ) 17:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC).
It's mentioned here in Mike Doherty's article for the National Post: Is there any way we could reinstate the bit about upsinging and include this reference?
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