In a newspaper article today, the Prime Minister issued an "expression of regret" for Britain's involvement in the forcible transportation of millions of Africans through British ports, including Glasgow and Liverpool.
However, he stopped short of taking responsibility for the horrors inflicted on past generations; such a move could have opened up the government to claims for reparations and been contentious with "middle-England" voters.
Now anti-slavery campaigners are urging black and white working class Britons to "reclaim" government-organised commemorations on the bicentenary of the abolition of slavery on 25 March next year.
They claim ministers are emphasising the "white middle class" contributions to the abolition of slavery while largely ignoring the role that Africans' own uprising played.
In a written statement to the Commons this week,
Mr Blair will set out the government's programme of events, led by John Prescott, the Deputy Prime Minister and Hull MP, whose predecessor William Wilberforce led calls in the late 18th century to abolish slavery.
In an article published today in the New Nation newspaper, Mr Blair said of the human trafficking which killed more than a million Africans: "It is hard to believe what would now be a crime against humanity was legal at the time.
"I believe the bicentenary offers us a chance not just to say how profoundly shameful the slave trade was - how we condemn its existence utterly and praise those who fought for its abolition - but also to express our deep sorrow that it could ever have happened and rejoice at the better times we live in today."
The word "sorry" is not used by the Prime Minister in relation to Britain's role in the transportation of about 11 million Africans.
Rendezvous of Victory, a campaign group, has criticised the emphasis of the bicentenary committee on what it describes as a "white middle-class movement" represented by Wilberforce.
Britain stopped shipping slaves in 1807 but it was not until 1833, a month after his death, that all slaves in the British Empire were freed.
The group says Africans were agents of their own liberation, and that their resistance and the contribution of white working-class British people have been largely ignored by the government
Kofi Mawuli Klu, of Rendezvous of Victory, said
the government's claim that the expression of regret was unprecedented was false. "In 1807, the passing of the slave abolition act was accompanied by an expression of regret.
Now it is being spun as a new development," he said.
Oona King, the former Labour MP whose father was a leading civil rights activist, said Mr Blair's remarks would not go far enough for some activists.
However, Andrew Rosindell, the Conservative MP for Romford, said the role Britain played in abolishing slavery deserved to be acknowledged and there was no need for an apology.
• GOVERNMENTS will often stop short of issuing full apologies for past injustices, for fear of triggering reparation claims.
While some multinationals have apologised for their historic support of the slave trade, the United States' appeal court is to hear a class action lawsuit by African Americans against large firms including Lloyds of London.
Politicians are perhaps worried an apology will trigger similar action against governments.
However, the Church of England, which owned the Codrington plantation in Barbados, in February apologised for its role in the trade.
At the World Conference Against Racism in South Africa in 2001, Juan Carlos Aparicio, Spain's labour and social affairs minister, said of African slavery: "We profoundly regret the injustices of the past."
Former US president Bill Clinton, ever the lawyer, in 1998 said: "Surely every American knows that slavery was wrong, and we paid a terrible price for [it], and that we had to keep repairing that.
And just to say that it's wrong and that we are sorry about it is not a bad thing. That doesn't weaken us."
However, at the 2001 World Conference Against Racism, Olusegun Obasanjo, Nigeria's president, called for an apology by "the states which actively practised and benefited themselves from slavery" for "the historical wrongs that are owed to the victims of slavery".
Blair claims to be a Christian.Perhaps he should look in the Bible,then the Talmud then the Koran.He will find no condemnation of slavery in any of them.
The pious mouthings of African politicians is laughable given that Africans were active participants in the capture and sale of other Africans who were transported to America as slaves.
Andros, #1,
Slavery is still a practice in some African nations. Someone I know lived with a family in Mali (he was in the Peace Corps.
) The family had a slave from a neighboring country (I forget which one.) They would frequently beat her, explaining that she was ok with it..
..
Slavery should be condemned by all nations, and it is ridiculous that it still goes on today.
..
How could anyone believe Blair when he says he's sorry ?
Obviously there is some political motive in this issue ...
and with slavery trafficking in people continuing today .. Blair's timing is a wee bit off when the police unit set up to tackle people trafficking in Scotland was disbanded the other day .
.
It's always easier to say sorry over something to which you were not responsible. Perhaps Blair is going to turn a new corner and apologise for all the mistakes he has made: the post war Iraq planning, cash for honours, increased crime etc etc
Blair is hardly the man you would want an apology from.
However, in this instance I support his decision to hold back an apology.
There is no doubt that slavery was a horrendously despicable act. But when it comes to the point in which white people must apologise to black people I draw the line and say NO!
Slavery was made possible due to the fact that powerful Black African's rounded up their own people and sold them for money to white buyers. The entire slave trade was despicable, but not something that white people should feel guilty about.
As human beings we are equipped with an inbuilt mechanism which forces us to explore.
We are inqusitive, we are thirsty for knowledge and commited to exploration of the skies and the seas. It was this inbuilt quest for knowledge which forced the Northern black skinned Zulu's to travel to South Africa and set themselves up as the most dominant tribe in a nation which was not theirs. It was the same quest for knowledge that forced white Europeans to design ships and advanced circum navigational equipment, which assisted them in setting themselves up in a land, which was not theirs.
In truth, Africans had as much of a chance of finding Europe as European's had of finding Africa. It was never a race of related indifference, it was always a battle of the mind. The group with the most advanced faculty of mind is always going to be the dominant force.
Knowledge is power!
Slavery was wrong, but none of us should EVER feel obligated to apologise for it. If anything, perhaps Africa owes the world an apology for failing to keep up with the rest of the planet.
Perhaps Africa should apologise to the world for her inherent propensity toward corruption and disorder,perhaps she should thank Europe and the rest of the world for the billions upon billions of dollars she receives in foreign aid. Perhaps she should be thanking the white man as opposed to looking for apologies from him.
When the black man realises that colour has little to do with anything, he will begin to lose his over sensitive racial problem.
Soon there will be no need to seperate themselves from whites by introducing concepts such as the, Black Music Awards, The Black Movie Awards, The Black Designers Awards,The Black this and the Black that awards.
Slavery still exists today and it is most rife in places such as Zimbabwe,Rwanda,The Congo etc! Makes you wonder why an apology from a white man regarding something that happened over 100 years ago is important, yet taking action against Black leaders who STILL practice slavery is overlooked.
#3 You seem to be missing the point. The HAKA is not merely a Maouri or a South Pacific tradition..
It is a RUGBY tradition,which the Welsh have well and truly disrespected.
In South Africa the Springboks line up and walk toward the All Blacks, just as the haka is ending the players are almost touching noses..
It is great and it should be welcomed in any RUGBY stadium the world over.
Slavery, aye. There was plenty slavery going on at the Labour Party conference.
It was just one slaver after another! (arf arf!!
)
Since becoming Prime Minister, is Blair sorry for the financial slavery millions of British people are in.
I understand where Blair is coming from but apologising for something your ancestors did long before you were born is essentially meaningless.
Far better instead to concentrate on building a fairer, more just world for those of us fortunate enough to be alive today.
1. Androsthenes: The Hebrews were to release their slaves periodically. When the church was established, the Roman Empire had twelve million slaves, if the early Christians condemned slavery the church would not have survived.
Christian masters were told to treat slaves with respect and vice versa, read the short letter of Philemon in the New Testament.
Slavery was and is awful, but these issues have to be viewed within the context of the era they happened and we should not be apologising but moving on to stamp it out where it currently exists.
Check out the anti-slavery society page:
The people that are calling for an apology should get a life and move on.
government-organised commemorations on the bicentenary of the abolition of slavery A sick joke!
Abolition of slavery would be a good idea; it still goes on everywhere.
Don't you read the news?
Filipino servants on subsistence and treated like vermin with deportation if they complain? East European prostitutes bought and sold like cattle? Illegal immigrants working on the black for next to nothing?
Many more examples, just look out of the window.
And this is just in our 'advanced civilisation' here in the UK. If Tony Blair really does condemn its existence utterly , perhaps he would do something to stop it.
That would be the best way of saying sorry.
Sorry, does not change history. People should move on and build for a better future.
A south african who wont apologise to a black man, wow theres a shocker for you...
...
..
Tony Blair = Hypocrite.
Britain at least led the way in abolishing slavery.Blair does not need to grovel over this as he for one was not around then and unless you knew all the goings on ,how much the Africans theirself were invoved ,an appology is all that is necessary.
Again it`s our cousins in the good USA who should be appologising as they had to fight a war over it.
Even then the black population was not treated as equals.You just have to watch the West programme on Sat. to see how despicible they were to the native Americans.
An appology for this evil trade will suffice.
The slavery being talked about is white versus black
when the European nations were expanding their empires.Slavery existed in Africa before the whiteman and exists now between blacks.
Let the Arab Slavers and the African Tribes who supplied the slavers apologise first,whites carried on the trade after witnessing how valuable this type of trade was,Africans taught us and we refined it.
Slavery has been made illegal now although it still exists in many parts of the world(all slavery should be abolished in its many forms).
I think this is a distraction from the real issues facing Africa these days.
We should focus more effort on getting rid of the tinpot dictators and maniacs which many African states are burdened with so their people can live in peace and prosperity.
But not much chance of this happening at present while the OAU does little to sort out the mess in Zimbabwe, Sudan, etc etc.
Slavery is wrong.
Always has been, always will be ...
stamp it out once and for all. No person can own another. That is a guarantee under International Law and the UN.
Those who don't agree with it? Shoot them ..
. they don't belong to the human race!
As for Blair .
.. well, there should be a law aganst slavering as well!
Tell the world this country deeple regrets our role in the past for the rape of the African continent and kidnapping its people. Yes we are sorry ..
. more than words can convey.
Slavery in the modern era is just wrong.
Execute the people who practice it!
When the black man realises that colour has little to do with anything ..
...
.interesting blinkered point of view perhaps when the white man realises that colour has little to do with anything things may alter just a tad. Slavery comes in many shapes and forms and plenty kingdoms have grown fat and prosperous thanks to it.
African big cheeses may have sold off their people but it was thanks to the demand from the like of the USA and the UK that this was possible and profitable. But then again when you are up against the white man with his white soldiers what's your options? Queen Elizabeth the first, I believe, was against slavery, but eventually bowed to the pressure from her advisers and the big drum of commerce.
..too much money to lose.
Its not just about slavery though is it?..
...
not just forcing people to work for you...
.what about the physical and mental abuse, the murders, the rape of women to breed future mules for your land. Once the slaves were handed over the real fun began.
All of these people are now dead of course...
too late to apologise its just their descendants who are left...
living in a world that still castigates them for the colour of their skin. If you are ever in the Peoples Palace in Glasgow have a look at the portrait of the Glassford family..
..apparently, originally, standing in the corner was the family's young black slave.
...
.he has been painted over..
...
...
...
...
wiped out due to the embarrasment it caused to later generations.
Quote - I mean not to accuse any one, but to take the shame upon myself, in common, indeed, with the whole parliament of Great Britain, for having suffered this horrid trade to be carried on under their authority. We are all guilty—we ought all to plead guilty, and not to exculpate ourselves by throwing the blame on others; and I therefore deprecate every kind of reflection against the various descriptions of people who are more immediately involved in this wretched business.
William Wilberforce, 1789 Abolition Speech in the House of Commons.
The lesson here for Blair is that national shame and guilt were expressed by those who actually abolished slavery. To express sorrow now, 200 years after slavery was ended, is to slap the abolitionist movement in the face.
We are still waiting for, I'm sorry for the mess in Iraq. Do we have to wait another 200 years for that?
If I am reading this article correctly it seems to be insinuating that (not Gerri Peev but others quoted) Whites were the only ones responsible for slavery and Blacks totally innocent in the trade.
Also that Blacks were the ones who achieved abolition of slavery in this country and the empire while Whites were of little significance.
Until I hear Blacks apologize for the part their ancestors took in the slave trade 150 years ago and for the slavery that still goes on in the continent that they claim to be their true home then I may accept the leaders of this country apologising for the part Britain took.
Until that time no apology Blair or any other politician make will be in my name or with my blessing
If Tony Blair has condemned Britain's role in the Slave trade that should be enough for all (as if it has any meaning now at all) but I do not see why he (as the head of the British Government) should say sorry.
My ancestors and I presume the vast majority of the ancestors of the current British electorate did not possess slaves so if any one should apologise it should be the desendants of the few rich families who benefitted form the slave trade.
What next after and apology? Claims for compensation?
William Wilberforce's words still ring true.
We are all guilty for allowing slavery to continue to this day, and any attempt by Blair to confine it to historical record is contemptible.
As you point out, an apology for Iraq would be within his compass.
I thought Britain apologised for this 200 years ago. That was why it was abolished.
Our general distrust in Blair can only have us presume that he is doing this for some other reason.
If he really is so upset about it why does he not lead an initiative to stamp it out totally today. It still goes on in places.
What a slimy toad he is.
No Apology needed .We wouldnt Expect an apology from The new generations of Germans would we .They are Brilliant people.
Yes it was terrible, dont forget it was Africans supplying the trade rounding there own people up and selling them. But it's history, today is now tomorrow the future. Lets all look forward and not backwards.
the slave trade in britain ceased a long time ago i feel sorry that it happened but neither myself nor any living briton has anything to apologise about as regards the slave trade. how far back in time do some halfwits want apologies to go, should the italians apologise to just about everybody for the exploits of the raman empire perhaps . the subject of apologising for something so far in the past is just another little pc joke
Slavery was part and parcel of Africa before the europeans and Americans arrived.
Arab and African slave traders made a profit from the trade too quite happily exporting slaves.
Of a more pressing nature is the current slave trade of eastern european women for the sex trade in the UK and europe.
Slavery was terrible, slavery IS terrible!
Many nations in Africa still practice it just as they did many hundreds of years prior to the white mans arrival.
But for the white man to apologise for it would be absurd.
I truly believe that only apology should come from Africa herself.
I think an apology for failing to keep up with the rest of the world would go a long way to curing her current problems.
Let African leaders apologise for their disruptive, disrespectful and barbaric behaviour over the last 60 years. Let them take responsibilty so that the rest of the world can move on and worry about our own problems as opposed to the CONSTANT plight of Africa and her people.
Let them stop their slavery and their mass genocidal missions of ethnic cleansing..African's must allow Africa to flourish!
The white man must apologise for nothing!
Will Blair be apologising for inflicting John Prescott upon us?
To attempt to absolve from guilt the white slave traders of the past is beyond ingenous; it is blatantly racist.
The market for slaves was exponentially increased by the demand from Europeans and Americans; Africans selling Africans in no way excuses this. All nations in these spheres benefited economically for centuries from cheap slave labor; the British and American empires were built on the sweat and blood of millions of people of color. Their descendants are owed more than just apologies; if you think the word 'sorry' is difficult for your PM to utter, try saying the word 'reparations' in the Congress.
Not until the unwelcome commentary of present-day racists has been removed from this equation, will progress be made in this debate.
The whole idea of apologising for events in the past which had nothing to do with any living person is utterly ridiculous.
Alison1, a good point well made.
How about the sex trade in Africa and Thailand amongst many other countries...
.where affluent white men go to pay big money to violate and sexually abuse wee foreign kiddies..
..many with the full knowledge of their poverty stricken parents.
..so in many years to come we will say It was all so long ago and it was their parents that sold them off anyway
The white man is more intelligent you get a f*****g grip of yourself pal!
To the posters of Comments 35 through 37: Please reread the last sentence of Comment 34. If you do not believe that your present position of social advantage is due to the color of your skin, and the actions of your ancestors, then you are woefully ignorant of history. You may not be directly responsible for slavery and the sufferings of millions, but your lot in life has benefited greatly from it.
Apologizing is the least one can do; reparations are legally and morally responsible. Please excuse me; I was under the impression that The Scotsman was an open form of debate; I seem to have stumbled into an enclave of conservative Caucasians.
Media 1 your superiority complex and arrogance is pathetic.
...
there are many races, nations and cultures who would claim superiority to others...
.you usually find these are the ones oppressing or seeking to oppress for their own benefit..
.or arrogance..
..like say for example South Africa.
A.D. #39.
I too was under the misapprehension that this was a forum for open debate, how wrong you have proved me to be. Please do not make assumptions about the colour of my skin.
How far back do you feel apologies are due?
Should Norway and Denmark apologise for Viking raids? Have Mongolia and Italy apologised for their empires?
Doreen: Speaking of South Africa, tell me what you know about her.
Did you know that her people now have access to the most modern infrastructure known to Africa? Did you know she has the most advanced banking and mobile cellular technology on the planet? Do you know she is the 14th largest economy in the world?
Do you know that she was once the safest place on Earth?
She can now after 12 years of African rule boast the highest crime levels in the world. 52 000 RAPES per annum, over 45 000 murders, 1500 cash in transit hesits, countless thousands of hi-jackings and armed robberies, not to mention the most corrupt government in Africa.
She is spiralling out of control and her policies on Black Empowerment are farcical. Funny how they want to empower themselves once the infrastructure and the economy is built. Perhaps they should have thought about that 200 years ago.
You see, until you have resided in Africa you will NEVER understand the problem..Zimbabwe under apartheid was a country in which black people worked,ate and had a roof over their heads.
That does not mean apartheid was right, but it sure as hell beats living under Mugabe. The once prosperous and dynamic country is now a disaster of epic proportions in which thousands are systematically starved to death by the man who was against apartheid.The same story applies to most other African nations.
Should the whites in SA decide to leave this country they have built it will implode on itself in a matter of months.
Stop taking the moral high ground regarding a situation you know little about. Do some research on Africa, read about her leaders and her lack of commitment to anything.
YES slavery was wrong, but do not for one minute think that I or anybody else should apologise for our ancestors..That will never happen
K. colony of Maryland / 1:16pm 27 Nov 2006
Slavery was wrong. Behaving like a professional victim is also wrong.
After his evil sexed-up dossier on Iraq which has led to the terrible death of 125 British Servicemen and many thousands wounded Blair is now trying to change his image to that as the good guy.
he is telling the blacks that he has deep sorrow for Britain's role in the slave trade more than two hundred years ago. will the Arab leaders follow Blair and tell the blacks that they too have deep sorrow over the slave trade?
Perhaps Blair will now say he has deep sorrow for the Irish.
when the PRINCE OF ORANGE invaded IRELAND? also what about the terrible mess we see in the NHS.EDUCATION.
LAW AND ORDER will he tell the country how sorrowful he is?
I'm still waiting for an apology from Italy for the hardship we endured under Roman rule. Outrageous.
Why have we been denied justice?
Professor, Durban Media 1, Cape Town
Thank you both for factual information. I would hope that the powers at be will take note, and have the courage to voice your salient points, instead of pandering, mealy-mouthed, to the ignorant and self-seeking alike.
anyone demanding an apology here should take responsibil;ty for their own actions rather than try blame it on something 150 yrs ago. Poeople demanding reperations should get a job rather than look for a free meal ticket
I saw Mr Lambie the black culture minister on the box yesterday. He said he didn't feel reperation payments had to be made, because the government had been following a policy of making reparation through various policies anyway.
Oh really?!?
Yet another example of inverted racist policies on the sly. Did anyone vote for this? Did the Labour Party give any incline that they intended to do so before getting elected?
Did they ever indicate to us the citizens of this Country their intent to do so before hand? This really is utterly outrageous. Britain is looking less like a democracy and more like a oligarchy run by a tiny self-perpetuating elite all the time.
At least Franco had the decency to admit he wasn't in favour of democracy.
Media 1 read my post..
..as ye sow so ye shall reap!
What do you expect from a country that so expertly crushed its people and would not even allow the majority of them the vote until 1994?..
..the legacy of aparthied and racism still exists in South Africa and yes its corrupt present government is not going to eradicate that.
There are over three and a half million displaced black South Africans, people forcibly resettled who were policed by terror...
terrorism breeds terrorism...
but hooray for advances in technology and finance...
Who is to blame...
.past or present government?
Africans were agents of their own liberation
Can anyone explain this statement?
While indeed there were one or two instances of slave rebellion in the USA and the Carribean by no stretch of the imagination could this be considered to match the unique efforts of the royal navy and the british government in opposing slavery from 1807 onwards, in many cases much to the detriment of British owned and controlled businesses. This was a unique and brave policy in those times.
The abolishment of the slave trade is something that British people should celebrate and be very proud of.
To rewrite history to suit the PC brigade is simply ludicros and does nothing to promote a true understanding of the practice.
The fact is that Morrocan pirates were attacking villages in Ireland and Cornwall in the 18th century to kidnap inhabitants for slavery so can we expect an appology from Morocco ?
The whole thing is a blatant political move, and as such, no-one should take it seriously.
Of course, were our esteemed prime minister to apologise for taking our armed forces into Iraq, something for which (unlike slavery) he was actually personally repsonsible, we might - I repeat MIGHT - take him more seriously.
Especially if he did something concrete about getting OUT of Iraq..
...
...
...
..
K. colony of Maryland / 3:39pm 27 Nov 2006
The queen shall be visiting our neighbor commonwealth in a few months, and it is my intention to protest with a sign, Take your Catholics back to England.
Please!
Happy birthday to Jon Stewart of The Daily Show from Congresswoman Sherri Davis, R-CA!
Doreen: Crushed its people?
Elaborate further. I grew up in white apartheid South Africa and I always considered the system unfair, but it was NEVER aa barbaric a system as the one you see today in Liberia,Malawi,Burkina Faso,Rwanda,The Congo,Zimbabwe,Mauritania,Mali,Angola,Uganda,Somalia to name but a few.
As I aged I began to gain an understanding of the mechanics which were involved in arriving at such a system, then I began to realise that it had been an impossible situation to avoid.
During apartheid black people were given their busses, their beaches, their schools, their townships and their churches. They were not permitted to enjoy white hotels and night clubs, but they were permitted to build their own hotels and night clubs,pubs and restaurants. Some did!
The system was indeed wrong, but then how else was it supposed to work? The 5 to 6 million white people that lived in South Africa had grown an economy to match any European nation and indeed if she was entirely white today, she would be among the top 5 economies in the world as we speak.
That is not to say that black people are stupid and I apologise for sounding so condescending earlier.
But the fact of the matter is that the white race has always been some way ahead of their black counterparts in terms of systems such as governance, currency,economics,innovation and progress.
Look at Australia a relatively new democracy, then look at Haiti, a 900 year old democracy. Look at America and then look at Jamaica.
Did you know that when the white man arrived in South Africa the local tribes people had not yet domesticated the horse as a mode of transport? That is beyond belief, but true. How then does one incorporate that level of intellect into a more technologically advanced intellect?
How does one unite the two cultures?
I agree that things could have been done differently and that the white man has much to answer for. But then so to does the black man.
The white man did not design ships and invent instruments like the compass in an attempt to search the globe for a slave. He did so in the name of progress, it just so happened that whilst he was travelling he stunbled upon a primitive tribal people. What was he to do?
Respect their cultures? Yes that would have been a better start. But humans are not built like that.
Besides, the difference in cultures was to vast for anyting other than conflict.
Maybe the white man should have introduced himself and left. But he didnt and that cannot be altered.
Slavery was wrong, but there is many things wrong in this world of the white mans makings.However, the fact remains that in a white society you are more inclined to live a tremendously prosperous life and enjoy the home comforts that go with it, unlike Africa.
No Briton alive now needs to apologise for something that happened 200 years ago.
As for reparations, a) we already pay those in foreign aid and b) Geldof campaigned for all third world debt to be cancelled. Looks like those of us who warned that it was only the start were right after all..
...
..though politically incorrect.
LOL
I dated a gal born in Rhodesia of Welsh parents. They lived on a farm that contributed to the export of food from Rhodesia to the rest of Africa. They became Americans, I wonder what that farm looks like today?
Media 1 wrote:
That is not to say that black people are stupid and I apologise for sounding so condescending earlier. But the fact of the matter is that the white race has always been some way ahead of their black counterparts in terms of systems such as governance, currency,economics,innovation and progress.
Yes, by relying upon the subjugation, oppression and slavery of other races.
That's how superior and civilised we white people are. An apology from our Prime Minister who is a well known liar will not make much of a difference but we as a nation should certainly be ashamed of how appallingly we treated people and how without slavery, we would not be the economically rich nation we are today. Until we acknowledge that, we will never be able to move on.
I have a better idea, why not let the Poles and Serbs come over here and do our work cheaply.
Media ! - I live on a Caribbean Island and you are correct about the differences.
The Island I live on is so far behind the times and yet we have reverse raciasim and majorly corrupt local polititions who after a few months in goverment become millionairs. All thi sis of the back of their own people. You do not need to be chained to be a slave.
, just do enough to keeep your people hungry.
MUM#58
Yes, by relying upon the subjugation, oppression and slavery of other races. That's how superior and civilised we white people are.
An apology from our Prime Minister who is a well known liar will not make much of a difference but we as a nation should certainly be ashamed of how appallingly we treated people and how without slavery, we would not be the economically rich nation we are today. Until we acknowledge that, we will never be able to move on.
Mum,may I remind you that prior to one ship docking in South Africa the white race had one thousand year old concepts of governance.
They had discovered that the sun was the centre of the universe, they had understood the laws of gravity as well as magnetism and atomic energy.They had a wheel, steam engines and many other wonderful innovations borne of their faculty of mind.
Your attempt at sugesting that the white man prospered from the black mans sweat is ludicrous.
Labour is labour, whether in the jungles of Africa or the highly developed countries of Europe, why the is it then that the output is not the same, or the rewards as extravagant?It seems that faculty of mind and expertly developed machinery play their part. The richer nations of the world enjoy a superior level of existence due to their ability to think at a different level.
That level was higher prior to anyone arriving Africa, thus discounting your claims that the whites only progressed as a result of slavery.
Had there not been one person on the continent of Africa the white man would have turned her into an economic giant, the way he did in South Africa.
So we should see a sorry from Tony on the mess in Iraq (or maybe closer to home) sometime in 2310!
Scotia #60.
I agree with your assessment on the state of the relations between different coloured groups in the Caribbean Islands.The higher caste coloured people which were in charge of the tourist facillities appeared to me to very harsh toward their subordinates,who seemed to be afraid of them.
I found it interesting that the Moravain Missionaries in Africa when confronted with rows of captives who had been captured in war awaiting their deaths at the hands of the Conquerors made an offer to the Chiefs. The Moravians offered to buy them and take them to another country(the Caribbean) where they could live instead of being killed.
Arab traders noted this and started rounding up the black poulation to sell.
Something that started as an act of compassion was corrupted,into the Slave Trade.
Britain fought four wars to abolish slavery,so why is Britain apologizing when they righted a wrong.Where is the Arab apolgies?
Where is the apologies of Africans who profited from the enslavement of their brothers.
The Janjaweed are doing the same thing in Darfur today.
Aye, we'll see that sorry right after GWB's .
..why is it so hard to say we're sorry for slavery?
• GOVERNMENTS will often stop short of issuing full apologies for past injustices, for fear of triggering reparation claims. ..
..hmmm, that's why.
.money!
.. Quest for knowledge / 7:20pm 27 Nov 2006
.. man's quest for knowledge.
..
look at the inventions of mankind, progressions of governance.
.. code of hamurabi.
.. roman senate.
.. all happened in areas that by their nature forced the interactions of peoples, and thus the progression of culture and society.
.. Egypt, the Sahara, Saudi desert, and the central african jungles, all shielded africa from exploration.
.. wide open savanas and a tropical climate/lifestyle provided little impetus for those who lived there to venture out.
they had no burgeoning NEED to trade far beyond a few days walk from their homes...
no NEED to domesticate horses or draft animals of any kind...
you also had no down time between productive seasons...
so their social cultures stopped progressing beyond tribalism.
if you go back to Heron the Librarian at Alexandria in Egypt (about 200bc)..
. he basically invented the steam engine, but due to the availabilty of slavery it was never developed, somebody correct me here if I've got something wrong but I dont think the Romans gave one whit either way as to the color of a slave's skin). 1700 years later Davinci.
.. and all this happened in the relative ease of a near tropical mediterranian climate.
...
questing for knowledge never got to application...
mediteranian explorers set out in their boats...
go bobbing along...
spend a few days...
get lost...
decide that if they dont get back they'll miss the chance to plant the winter crop...
head back to morning sun...
and they say there isnt much out there (beyond the pillars of hercules)...
Irish and Norwegian explorers set out in their boats...
cause its too dang cold damp where they came from...
spend a few days...
get lost...
think about going back for a minute or two...
think about the 6 week growing season they just missed...
decide it aint so bad...
and go on...
.. lol
I have often wondered if the hardship of northern winters has had something to do with driving the application of knowledge to discovery and inventions (initially navigation (sextant), the steam engine, and the industrial age).
no, I dont appologize for slavery...
I often wonder how significantly past leaders have stunted mankinds progression by allowing it...
. and most of the time it makes me mad..
.
Arabs apologised for starting it?
Have the Africans apologised to each other for doing it for hundreds of years before a white man walked on their continent?
Have the Irish apologised for stabbing Britain in the back during two wars with Germany?
Have the Dutch apologised for starting the trend of wearing socks with sandals?
If we say sorry , will they say thank you for us committing our military resources to stop this vile practice? Especially bearing in mind that the practice had long existed in Africa long before it got industrialised by the western nations.
Perhaps Blair can also apologise to the descendants of those Scots (and for all I know Irish) sent in bondage to the West Indies, not to mention the descendants of the Clearances.
More to the point, how about apologising to the families of dead and maimed innocent Iraqis.
Apology like charity starts at home.
a lot of hot air and graffiti generated by blair simply wanting a bit of publicity.
he presses the button and you are all historians.
Wee hev..
.you need a sound scuttlin from behind and 'doon under'..
.and then perhaps a cheeky wee nut roast complete with crisp seasonal vegetables..
.all washed down with a couple o' pints o' ma p*sh!.
...
deeeliciousssss!
Listen everyone,
I'm a black woman. Never been a slave.
My ancestors were, many through no choice of their own, were of various mixed heritages. No apology could change what happened so long ago. nor could one stop what's happening today.
What people need to realize is yes slavery has been around for a long time and many, many people of various races have been responsible for the trade in humans in the first place. The horrible part is how people were treated by all involved. There is no excuse large enough , no argument sound enough to treat humans past or present worse than beast of burdens!
! Someone who is whipped to death because another thinks of them as property!!
!
Someone compared slavery to the forced sex trade in women and children. Don't you see?
it's all the same. Some cultures may have a different level of advancement than others, but each stronger group of people take from a weaker one and along with its corrupt leaders makes it even harder on those who are not corrupt , and only want a decent way of life. Africa is a mess in many areas, yet it has been robbed and is still being robbed of its riches.
Look at the gold and diamond business. The people who risk their lives the most do not benefit very much. To cut this off, America is also built from that same attitude.
The strong survive. It may be true, but it not right!!
Stop apologising for what went on the past, and learn from it, and do not repeat it in the present so that we can all have a brighter future.
I am white and have no African blood in me at all. However my family did come to the US (then the colonies) as slaves.
Slavery existed for all people not just Africans. I don't expect an apology but then being white no one would even think of giving one for those of my ancestry even though there were slaves that were white as well as black.
Used to have this discussion in Saudi Arabia with the locals who were always bringing up the subject of slavery.
...
They soon shut up when it was pointed out that it was they, Arabs, not whites who started the slave trade...
...
..
Blair has nothing to say sorry for -- this is another case of a bunch of liberals looking for something for nothing.
..
Everybody is going nuts apart from myself.
Did Tony Blair start slavery, no. Did Tony Blair work his butt off to end slavery, no. Where the hell does Tony Blair come into the scene.
Unless of course he was remotely involved with the death of the dinosaurs. Your party has made enough mistakes to apologise to for. Don't try and tell us you can walk on water as well.
Ok Blair so apologize to the africans for our involvement in slavery but also apologize to our own people for setting up the penal colony called Australia and shipping our own people over there for stealing a sheep or loaf of bread and apologize to them for treating them like slaves once and if they got there.
Also apologize for the landowners and factory workers in the UK who treated their workers no better than slaves and the so called apprentices who were slaves. ( they worked for no money and were called apprentices).
If you are going to go down that road Mr Blair then apologies should start at home.
To hell with Africa, slavery was going on there hundreds if not thousands of years before white mane ever set foot in Africa.
Guess who built the pyramids?
I'm sure Egypt isn't going to step up to the plate and apologize.
Get on with life. and I say to the civil rights activists.
GET A REAL JOB
not half as sorry as 'our' Tony and his shifty mates will be about what they did in Iraq when they meet their maker.
Waqr criminals!
Blair's gesture was symbolic and the political move of a desperate man probably to get the sympathy of the black community.
I agree that to a white person this can be humiliating as would anybody be if you found yourself 'apologising' via the PM for something you were never part of and would hurt one's sense of pride. Actually the Blair should be thanking the black community (ex slaves) and also the indians (ex coolies) and in general all the colonies that have been exploited gleefully, for their contribution to the wealth of England today (estimated 1/3 of actual riches in England are the compound product of slavery alone). Maybe some compensation to the descendants of those who have been exploited or to the nations that have been plundered by colonialism (well that one is not 200 years, colionialism ended some 60 to 40 years ago) would be appropriate and help to re-equilibrate the balance for people/nations who have lost so much historically.
First I would like to say, there is no word in any language that is enough to apologise for enormity of one of the worst crimes in human kind ever. The suffering, exploitation, the chains, the voyages from Africa at the bottom of the ships, raping of african women by the slave owners, the laws that were implemented by the countries involved, the life, culture that africans lost as a result of the transportation and many more suffering you cannot put in words such as pychological, emotually, etc - all of these endured by Black people and yet still sorry seems to be the hardest word. Even though sorry is not enough, I believe it will be the beginning and I certainly think all the countries, if not legally, but morally they owe to say sorry.
Many people feel that, Britain and all other contries involved should not say sorry since they were not directily or the present generation played no role in the slave trade. Trying to shift blame, erase history or forget about slavery is a sign of ignorance and shallowness. Every aspect of our lives, our livinghood is positively and negatively affected by history and history continue to dictate how we, the present generation live and how we can improve the future.
So that that I was not the one who did it approach, so I wont apologise i wrong.
It is important to know that, the problems that confrant us us today is and or can be traced back to slavery, meaning that the slavery legacy still lives on and ignorance to history is only re-enforcing such problems rather than trying to solve them such as racism, institution racism, inequalities, ghettoism, apatheid in SA (past), segregation in a America, Africa and other parts of the world. It is through slavery that the colour of anyones still play a key role in his or her life.
As Bob Marley said, Until that philosophy that holds one race inferior and another race superior, is discreadited and destroyed, there will always be conflict. until that day when the colour of a man`s skin is of no more significant than the colour of his eyes, there will always be conflict and haitrage.
Lets not forget, this country, is one of the richest in the world and most of its wealth can be traced back to slavery and colonialism.
The unpaid wages, resources such as gold, dianomonds etc and civilisation, art, sculpture all illegally acquired from
to make this contries to be what it is, hence allowing the present generation to enjoy the benifit. while they enjoy the benefits, some of them still think they ought to say sorry. Yes Britain abolished slavery, but what steps were ever done to compensate the ex slaves, NONE.
In fact, compersation was paid to the former slaves. the same case happenned in America after Lincolin supposidly declared the emancipation in 1865. continue
continued.
After the emacipation was declared, President A Johnson who became the next American President after Lincolin took no steps to fulfill the compesation ans promises that were made to the ex-slaves. ie 40 acres and a mule, total freedom and citizenship. etc.
Instead his government promoted segregation. New laws such as the jim craw laws, black codes along with other racist orginisation such as the KKK were formed, all with one aim of promoting white supremecy. As a result afro-american became known as second class citizens and this went on for years since slavery was abolished and each that followed government inheritated inheritated and re-enforced the prenciples of their predecessors.
You can also speak of America and Britain played a major role in Apatheid in SA. British and American companies supplied computers and necessary hardware yhat was pivotal to the system of apartheid that saw Steve Biko Killed, Imprisonment of Nelson Mandela, the soweto and shepville killings, creation of homelands that made affricans aliens in their own country and many more. If the world has forgotten and is hoping that we forget slavery because the people responsible are no longer here, so where is the hate I just mentioned above coming from.
Mandela was only freed in 1993 and funny enough, the people that supported the system that send him to prison are now calling him a hero.
In Britain you can also cite just to name a few, the riotes of the 1970`s, 80s all of them triggered by racism and inequalities. where are these prejudices coming from.
what is the source. Currently I am stadying a degree in mental health nursing and I read recent articles that stated that the british society and its mental health sevices see black people as more likely to suffer from mental illness and to be treated by physical rather than talking therapies. again, where are these prejudicies come from.
HISTORY ANSWERS THIS QUESTION.
Also in France and the riots etc. where is that haitrage coming from.
Its not just to say sorry, but to say it like with meaning and take necessary steps the their fore-fathers should have. and its all about money,but to implement policies that eradicate all the above problelms I mentioned and promote fair trade.
this is to the professor in Durban, SA
I read with shock some of the points you raised in your debate.
As a professor I would have expected a more in depth of knowledge.
First, Africa is the birth of humankind and civilisation. the first human fossils were discovered in SA and Tanzania making Africans to be the first humanns on earth according to science.
science has also proved the earliest forms of civilisation can be traced back to Africa such as Art, Agriculture, sculpture, writing etc. Countries such as Egypt, Zimbabwe Mali, and many more has al provided scientist with evidence of our civilisation, which later the Europeans illegally acquired and lied to the rest of the world as if it was theirs.
As am from Zimbabwe, let me say briefly about GREAT ZIMBABWE.
Stones were laid on top of each other without any mud, creating one of the most greatest old city and popular tourist attraction cite. when the Europeans came to Zimbabwe, they were so amuised and shocked to see such great walls in Africa. Beacuse of their ignorancy they refused to believe that what they had discovered was built by africans.
instead they drew so many explanations eg, the arabs or prior white explorers must have built the walls. some of them lied to the world that they had built it.
There is such thing as segregation in Zimbabwe from black people to white people.
in fact its the other way round. after independance, whites still owned the majority of the land and eployed blacks as their servants, exploiting and sometimes paying them nothing. they promoted segregation in zimbabwe by building their own schools, bars, clubs.
They made no effort towards social intergration.
I notice you are based in SA, have you not even bothered to read about apartheid and who was behind the system and for the benefit of who. have you also not read about lives of Afro-americans after the emancipation of 1865.
ie america was segrigated-WHITE ONLY, BLACKS ONLY in in bars, retaurants, toilets etc. who again was behind all of this and for the benifit of who. celebrating black music awards etc is not segregation.
thats is simply people trying to be proud of their heritage and origins and so should you.
get your facts right mr professor and if you have been made foolish and ignorant, dont try and make other people ignorant as well. it is beause of people like you racism still exist.
Malcolm,
Everything you say is true, Things and facts that have been said hundreds and hundreds of times. People shut their eyes and ears and do not want to hear. Believe me I very well know what slavery and racisms has brought about.
I face it everyday, the way I'm treated on the job, just trying to find a place to live! For the past year I've been looking for an apartment to rent. I have good credit, don't owe anyone, and have excellent references to back me up(real estate people no less!
!) and cannot get an apartment, one excuse after another. The white father of a 25 year old woman said he couldn't believe how his no working lazy daughter could get one first time out, without a job, and no references and I could not.
If I let these things get to me I would not have a life, that is why I made the comments I did earlier. Not because I'm blind to things. They will never make good on the things promised to Black people in any way and most of us know that!
!!!
!!!
Thanks Malcom X for being the voice of reason.
It is quite interesting how when people discuss with reason that all those slagging around suddendly come to silence (3-4 messages a day by people with bordeline racist comments, with I am sure were made with the best of intentions and a clear concience). But when they start seeing the real depth of the subject and when they cannot pass on their incendiary remarks they just back off because they are responding through stereotyped views that are used to fight off the guilt that acknowledging such facts as you mentionned can produce.
Sonjar,
While I do agree with you that the system is very unequal, sometimes it is also worth looking at different possibilities for the source of one's problem instead on focusing on it as being from ethnic or racial prejudice.
That girl could have been that lucky because she never had loans, credit cards or whatever that could eventually been spoiling her credit record. Thats also why young people who apply for Credit Cards find themselves 'Pleasantly' surprised to be given big credit limits.
We should never also forget that story is written by the Wictorious, Wealthy and the Privileged. This is why we should never stop making our voices being heard. NEVER LET ANYONE REWRITE OUR HISTORY.
Never let the world forget who we are, where we come from or the suffering of our forefathers will have been in vain.
Never stop letting your voice be heard, dont let my comment deter you from keeping on the fight, just try to be more measured in what you say, we always need to be credible. Saying things that can be easily discredited will always be the best way for us to lose credibility.
Sonjar,
The point is also not to go through life with a victim mentality. You are worth so much more. Stand proud for who you are and fight for the cause that you believe in.
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